Dan Margulis Applied Color Theory

How to Evaluate Photoshop Technicians

How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "hup_d_dup"
Thu Feb 1, 2007 1:49 pm (PST)

I work at a large stock photo studio with multiple workstations to prep images. Up to now, hiring/developing Photoshop techs has been a haphazard affair. Some people work out and others don't. Since we tend to use people with little training it's hard to predict what talent they may have.

I would like to know what strategies or criteria others use when hiring Photoshop techs, not just at entry level, but at any skill any level.

Jonathan Clymer
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Henry"
Thu Feb 1, 2007 3:06 pm (PST)

I may be mistaken, but I would guess that image prep for stock images would be a bit more routine than it would be for more creatively demanding tasks. I say this with regard to the technical specifications part of Photoshop work, which would be the first hurdle. I'm guessing that he technical specifications are probably a matter of policy with stock imagery.

The higher hurdle will be with regard to images that are destined for offset printing. How the candidate handles challenging conversions to CMYK, as with images containing blue skies, flowers, and people would be of interest. Of interest also would be how the candidate handles one of those breathtaking, but altogether impossible to separate images. I would be looking first for their recognition or awareness of the challenge, then for their evaluation of the issues and then for the technique used.

Spotting and touch-up technique shouldn't be overlooked. Touch-up may seem less important, however, this task can be fatiguing and may seem laborious and tedious. Attitude is important, and touch-up can uncover poor attitudes and habits.

This is also the kind of perp work that could be done off-site - if you fine the right person.

Henry Davis
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "J Walton"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 3:25 am (PST)

In my experience, the only reliable way to predict if a person will work out is by testing them with real images. I always liked to interview people to see how they interact and to weed out the wierdos, but in the end the resume means nothing to me; it's all about the images.

When I put my first test together 7-8 years ago it was just one job with a little Quark, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Eventually I developed a separate retouching test that was Photoshop-only, and contained 4 images.

As long as I'm getting nostalgic, here's the details on those images:

1. Sodium Lights image posted to this group a few years back. Simple highlight/shadow move, best done in RGB. Great way to test if they have any experience as a *good* scanner operator.
2. Rose image I think I pulled off of Dan's CD (or one of those horrid Corel photo CDs). Simple channel mixer move, cyan into black. Great way to see if they have any CMYK experience.
3. Moire image posted to this group. Not-so-simple Hue/Saturation move, best done in RGB or LAB.

Those three images had a time limit of 30 minutes (10 minutes each). Since it is a pressure business giving them all day would not be a realistic test. Sometimes you really do only have 10 minutes to beat a deadline and you need to know how they will react.

The last image was a shot of a minivan that was used for a car brochure. The van needed to get outlined, and a shadow added. Bonus points for making the windows look good.

Those 4 images revealed a lot about how people work and their speed/attention to detail. There were people with *incredible* portfolios who did not pan out at all, and there were people with absolutely no professional experience who ended up being fantastic retouchers. I've seen enough of my work in someone else's portfolio to give them little weight. I've tested too many art school graduates to believe that education has much to do with the job.

So, as a simple answer to your question, if you want to know how they will do on your images GIVE THEM YOUR IMAGES and see how they do.

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J Walton
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Lee Clawson"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 7:21 am (PST)

Jonathan,

I ask them what they know about photography. And we look at both good and bad images (color and B&W prints usually). Being able to visually analyze an incoming picture or group of them gives me a sense of how they see rather than what tool/technique they'd use.

Lee Clawson
2/\V/\7 Studio
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How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Shirley Hicks"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 9:21 am (PST)

Hello from a long time lurker and attendee at one of Dan's workshops.

Having been both an employer, employee and currently contemplating getting involved as alumni at my art school, it's really important that you feed these real world selection critieria back to the training institutions.

It would help students make better choices about areas in which they are more likely to be successful early on, and allow them to better select what they are likely to be strong in. Not to mention to better spend their tuition money if they're not cut out for the field.

Shirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario
Website: www.velochic.ca
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Jim Rich"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 10:19 am (PST)

Jonathan,

One method to access different levels of potential new hires is for your company to develop a relevant series of assessment tests. That might include a 15 question or less written test that might be a mix of multiple choice questions and fill in the blank as well as a practical set of tests exercises a job candidate can work on before being hired.

It takes some time and patients to go this route, but once you have taken the time to develop a good assessment test then you will see that hiring Photoshop techs will be less haphazard. That should impact your companies bottom line.

Jim Rich
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Dennis Dunbar"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

J makes a good point here. I've been doing high end PS work for about a dozen years, and I've hired lots of artists and trained lots as well. Since there are so many different kinds of work and so many different kinds of expertise you need to find some images that show the typical problems you run into.

J outlined a test he used to give. Most of my work has been in entertainment advertising and so I rarely run into the challenges he covers in this test. So my test would be very different from his, probably covering stripping heads onto bodies, color correcting multiple images so they "belong" together etc. etc..

When I had my own studio I would ask artists to bring examples of their personal work. Especially if it were someone just out of school. Most of the time their portfolio was a combination of class assignments showing what their teachers thought they needed to know. But their personal work would show their true talents. That let me see what I had to work with.

HTH

Dennis Dunbar
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: Dan Margulis
Fri Feb 2, 2007 2:42 pm (PST)

First, geography plays a big role. The best pay is in the big cities but that's where the most competition is, too--people who have these talents are mobile, and flit from job to job as they see fit.

For those who are competing for the plum jobs, the important thing to remember is that you don't *win* a job as much as other people *lose* it. When I was hiring in the 1990s, I would often get between 50 and 100 responses for each opening. Today, my wife gets around ten times that many. Around half of the applications are from obvious jokers, which helps, but still there are way more nominally qualified applicants than could possibly be investigated.

A sensible employer tries to get the field narrowed down to three or perhaps five people who are going to get looked at closely. That means that MOST qualified applicants get only the briefest of glances--we're looking for any reason to narrow the field down. So:

1) If there's a typo in the resume, unless it's clear that English is not the applicant's first language, I toss it in the trash, as does my wife. Is that right? Is that fair? No, and no, but that's the way it is. Everybody lets errors slip once in a while, but a resume is an important job, and the presence of a mistake is a clue that there might be a lot more where that one came from. I have no time to take a chance by proceeding further.

2) An astonishing number of applicants don't get the name right of the person who is doing the hiring. My name, for example, is hard to spell, and my wife's is even harder. However, it isn't impossible to find out the correct spelling. If the applicant can't take the time to do so, perhaps he takes shortcuts in production work, too. Into the trash it goes.

3) Nobody gets hired because of the physical appearance of their resume and/or portfolio, but a lot of people disqualify themselves. As long as the design is somewhat appropriate, it's not a factor. But ostentatious design errors--putting one's name in 36-point type on the resume, for example--makes me think that either the person doesn't know he's a bad designer, in which case he's a dope, or is too shy to ask for help from his friends, in which case his personality is bad, or he *has* no friends, which is even worse. Whatever the explanation, I can't justify taking the time to speak to that person.

4) Many people sneak other folks' work into their own portfolio. Others include work they did themselves, but so long ago that they don't remember how they did it. Before going into an interview, the applicant should review every piece in the portfolio, because the most obvious way that an interviewer can tell what you know about Photoshop is by asking you to explain how you did a certain job.

5) Also, younger applicants often are so worried that they will appear ignorant that when asked a technical question that they don't know the answer to, they make something up out of whole cloth and try to sell it to the interviewer. True, some interviewers may be fooled by such poppycock--but why take a chance? *Nobody*'s knowledge of Photoshop is so complete that they can't be stumped by a lot of questions. If an applicant is trying to baffle me with tech talk to disguise the fact that he doesn't know the answer, first it shows that he makes a lot of dangerous assumptions about the people he talks to; second it means that I can't work with this person as a colleague because I can't always depend on myself to be able to see through his cock-and-bull stories.

You would think that applicants wouldn't make these mistakes--but they do, over and over.

Dan Margulis
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Henry"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 2:43 pm (PST)

Depending on your business approach, you might consider making the opening for an apprenticeship position. This will give you the chance to discover the candidate's attitude and habits and it will give the candidate a chance to discover the shop's attitude and habits and expectations. Often, if the right person is given the chance to learn on the job, such a person will have a better reason to develop an attitude that fits in with the shop. Also, if the shop is tight about procedures, methods, and requirements for image prep, such a person may not be put off by this as much as someone who is accustomed to galloping freely on the creative range.

An apprentice could be assigned the more tedious tasks such as touch-up. This would improve the morale of the other staff, and offer an incentive for the candidate to graduate to the next level. While interacting with the other staff as an apprentice, the candidate will be getting input and training that is consistent with shop standards and will hopefully develop a sense of fitting in as the skills are developed.

This would greatly reduce the pre-hire testing to touch-up only, and it would also be a signal that higher level positions are earned. Even if the candidate has terrific skills, the apprenticeship approach can be beneficial. Regardless of skill level, new hire pilots start out in the right seat for a reason.

Henry Davis
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Alessandro Bernardi"
Fri Feb 2, 2007 2:43 pm (PST)

Jonathan in my little experience I've learned that a mix of written questions and working with some images should be the right choice.

For example few years ago I had to make a little course to a company that dealed with a lot of images for many supermarket special offers, so their main Photoshop tasks were to create Clipping Paths with the pen tool and a basic color correction.

Of course we made a short written test to check the level of preparation with some questions about the various techniques of selecting and creating a path.

Some questions were written in a way that seemed very simple but they weren't so simple.

And after this we made some practical tests with images taken directly from their archives that represented their normal work with different level of difficulty.

So the unique rule is to write the question with a little bit of malice and to choose the images from the cases that created problems in the normal production but all this must be absolutely inherent to the kind of images you deal with.

A further step may be to make the same tests to all the techs already working into your company and write down the different results, so you can evaluate how different kind of techs already working for you can solve the problems.

Now if you compare the results of the working techs with the new techs you should have an idea of what kind of talent you could get from a certain tech.

I know this is not a very scientific method but probably can give you some results.

Alessandro Bernardi
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "new_news"
Sat Feb 3, 2007 5:26 pm (PST)

I appreciate all the responses to my question. All lot of good answers. The one that comes closet to what I had in mind was written by Lee Clawsen.

I ask them what they know about photography. And we look at both good and
bad images (color and B&W prints usually). Being able to visually analyze an
incoming picture or group of them gives me a sense of how they see rather
than what tool/technique they'd use.

I am in the fortunate position of being able to hire someone who is not expert, or even particularly experienced, in Photoshop. I'm willing to train him or her. But I need to have someone with a good eye, and I don't know how to train someone to "see" what I want them to see. I can explain color, contrast, perspective, etc., to some degree but that only goes so far.

There are (at least) two problems finding a person like that: I don't know how to do a proper evalution, and even if I did, an untrained person might not have the knowledge of how to express himself regarding the image concepts I'm trying to evaluate. I think I may be looking for the type of testing a psychologist might do.

In the meantime, I'm going to start using Lee's method.

Jonathan Clymer
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "john castronovo"
Sun Feb 4, 2007 8:24 am (PST)

I also agree with Lee that finding someone with good visual skills is probably more important than technical knowledge. One thing remains unsaid in this thread, and that's the question of ATTITUDE and a good one will shorten the learning curve for anyone.

First, I always try to look for people who have taken on challenges, even in their personal lives. Look for the stack of bitten bullets, as they say. Then I examine people skills and look for examples of attitudes towards learning and flexibility. Everyone gets along with people they like on a good day, but I really want to know how this person deals with difficult people and situations under pressure when the deck is stacked against them.

There are many fine technicians who fail miserably in these respects and eventually they become big problems to the company in any number of ways. If we hire people who have a good aesthetic sense, are easy to get along with and who go out of their way to teach themselves easily and willingly, the rest will happen by itself in very short order while accomplished experts with confrontational attitudes will poison the organization even faster.
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Lee Clawson"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 8:33 am (PST)

Jonathan,

You might also include the question asked on my 1st job interview. After lengthy questioning I was asked what was opposite RGB on the color wheel. I froze, couldn't think of an answer.

Lee Clawson
2/\V/\7 Studio
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Pylant, Brian"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 9:07 am (PST)

1) If there's a typo in the resume, unless it's clear that English is not the applicant's first language, I toss it in the trash, as does  my wife. Is that right? Is that fair? No, and no, but that's the way it is.

I, too, am very critical of anyone who includes any sort of typo, or grammatical or usage error on their resume or cover letter. Do I always write perfectly? Heck no (although I certainly intend to!), but as Dan said the resume is so important that there is really no excuse for a slap-dash job, and IMO no mistake is acceptable.

On a similar note, one thing that is an instant turnoff to me is using the default resume template in Word. If that's all the care you put into the appearance of your resume then you're not the candidate for me.

And my ultimate annoyance are the auto-submit robots on sites like Monster and Career Builder. We get resumes from people all over the country and the world, and hardly any of them make any mention of being interested in relocating to the Philadelphia area, or having any knowledge of the job they are applying for. (I would think that, if you were applying in earnest for an out of town job, you would make mention of your interest and/or willingness to relocate.) They are obviously just auto- submitting to every vaguely-relevant listing, with no further qualification, and that's simply a waste of my time. I immediately discard any submission that appears to be random. In fact, I place a lot more emphasis on any candidate that knows who we are and what we do -- this is a great company to work for, and I want people who want to work *here*, not just people who want to work.

We tend to hire lesser-experienced operators and provide a ton of hands-on, in-house training, so our screening practices probably aren't as appropriate to some more traditional shops. But, we do make every applicant take a basic skills test (heavy on both math and prepress concepts) and a personality screening, and no less than two or three interviews with Prepress and HR managers. The test is not simply pass/fail, we use it more just to evaluate how much the applicant may already know about printing and prepress, but the more glaring errors (math, etc.) definitely help us determine if an applicant has the right aptitude to learn what we do.

BRIAN PYLANT
Manager, Electronic Prepress

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Disc Makers
7905 North Route 130, Pennsauken, NJ 08110
Toll free: 1-800-468-9353 ext. 5539
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "James Irelan"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 2:48 pm (PST)

I think it is right. I recently prepared my resume using a software package by someone who sells herself as a resume expert. The template part is the least of what is in the package; most of it is advice and discussion about what to do and how to do it. And she says the same thing: there's no excuse for sloppiness, typoes and bad grammar. And so you are not alone in expecting that the least the applicant can do is to present a well-written, or at least not badly-written resume.

James Irelan
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Gene Palmiter"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 5:18 pm (PST)

I don't really disagree, but there is another way to look at it. Artistic sense is a right brain thing...spelling is a left brain thing. Someone could be great at Photoshop without being a stickler for details where the resume is concerned.

Attention to detail is important in all tasks...but some people cannot see typos. It doesn't mean they cannot color correct photos.
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "zthreen lists"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 6:15 pm (PST)

It's hard to see how typos can get into a resume these days. OSX has had (for some time) a built-in spell checker available to all apps. A developer only has to add a few lines of code and voila. Spell check. You have to work hard to find an OS X app that DOESN'T have spell check (I only know one, z-write, and I use it for free-writing so I don't stop to fix spelling errors).

If you're using Word to prepare your resume, there's even less of an excuse (and what student or person can't get access to Word? Go to your local library, ask a friend, get a opy-cay off the internet-ay). Word has a spell-checker and a grammar checker in every version since 95. Hey, even Photoshop has a spell checker these days. You don't have have to see typos. There's all sorts of computer tools to point them out to you.

If you can't remember to run spell check on your resume, how can you be expected to remember to run a sharpen filter on every image?

Matthew Rigdon
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Denton Taylor"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 8:55 pm (PST)

Spell checkers can't fix too for to, it's for its, and so on...

Regards,

Denton Taylor
photogallery at
www.dentontaylor.com
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "john castronovo"
Mon Feb 5, 2007 8:55 pm (PST)

A spell check can't tell the difference between to, two and too. That kind of mistake is made all the time, and while it really doesn't affect the way someone works, it's the sort of thing that can bother people later on. Everyone does some correspondence, even if it's only email, and poor writing skills will be a bad reflection on the company. I wouldn't immediately disqualify someone because of it, but it would make the difference between one choice and another of equal ability.
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "zthreen lists"  
Mon Feb 5, 2007 11:58 pm (PST)

Kick in the grammar check, no It's not perfect, but hopefully it will catch a good number of those before you send a resume out. I think we're still talking about resumes? I can understand missing something in an email (although spelling isn't as easy to excuse these days, even online mail programs have spell check).

Dan mentioned that people can't even learn to spell his name write (ed.) when they send him a resume. And you want a job? You really don't want someone who won't take the time to get their resume right. If they can't be trusted to care about their own future, how will they care about yours? And one day, it can really, really hurt. And I'm not talking about "We mispelled something on a card for a local real estate agent and we have to reprint a 1000 cards", I'm talking about "We misspelled the name of the CEO of a major record label in material that was handed out to hundreds of members of the press at a prestigious awards event", which doesn't mean saying "I'm sorry", but rather "I'll never work in this town again." ;)

Of course, if you aim low, you never have to worry about that guy with the bad spelling torpedoing your business...

Matthew Rigdon
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Pylant, Brian"
Tue Feb 6, 2007 8:06 am (PST)

Attention to detail is important in all tasks...but some people cannot see
typos. It doesn't mean they cannot color correct photos.

That's what proofreaders are for. Spellcheckers are great (for the most part), but I would never send a mission-critical document (such as a resume) without at least two human proofreaders checking behind me.

Although on the flipside, a perfect, typo-free proofread resume means I might hire someone who can't spell to save his or her life, and I wouldn't know it until later.
:o)


BRIAN PYLANT
Manager, Electronic Prepress

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Disc Makers
7905 North Route 130, Pennsauken, NJ 08110
Toll free: 1-800-468-9353 ext. 5539
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Lee Clawson"
Tue Feb 6, 2007 8:07 am (PST

on 2/5/07 9:47 PM, zthreen lists  wrote:

If you can't remember to run spell check on your resume, how can you
be expected to remember to run a sharpen filter on every image?

Matthew,

Because one is almost entirely visual the other is much less so.

Who we hire bring an incredible variety of insights and experiences. While the larger of group posting is quick to dismiss based on spelling I may see and respond to it but rarely give it weight when selecting people.

Lee Clawson
2/\V/\7 Studio
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Les De Moss"
Tue Feb 6, 2007 8:08 am (PST)

Between two equally skilled candidates, I'll take the one who produces the most professional resume, shows up on time, dresses appropriately, and converses with confidence. It's competition for a job, and the most competitive person wins. I don't automatically assume that spelling errors are sloppy oversights, rather, I assume the person doesn't know how to spell. Ditto for telling time or dressing sharply.

With any employee, it's the full package that's considered, not only for the position that needs filling, but for future advancement. The person you hire as a PS technician today, may be your department manager of tomorrow. It doesn't make good sense to knowingly hire someone who demonstrates questionable potential from the get-go.

Les De Moss
DigiGraphics LLC
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Lee Clawson"
Tue Feb 6, 2007 8:49 am (PST)

on 2/6/07 3:06 AM, zthreen lists wrote:

"We misspelled the name of the CEO of a major record label in
material that was handed out to hundreds of members of the press at a
prestigious awards event", which doesn't mean saying "I'm sorry", but
rather "I'll never work in this town again." ;)

Hire a copy editor.

Lee Clawson
2/\V/\7 Studio
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Alison Walker"  
Tue Feb 6, 2007 9:19 am (PST)

Greetings

I have been very interested in this thread since I am currently interviewing students from a local program for retouch internships as part of our companies goal of "growing our own retouchers".

Working with the instructor, I had the students give me their resumes, interview, show me their portfolios and take a small test. It was a good process for identifying the most appropriate candidates.

What I find interesting is how much focus is being spent on spelling. I am Dyslexic and have NEVER learn to spell. I use spell check all the time. I have people proof read most of what I send out. I have been the lead color retoucher for over 8 years at a high end prepress company and I am very well respected at the program where I guest teach. When I did the interview with the students I had a hard time with there resumes because I have a hard time reading. So I used OS X's text to speech function. And I had someone else read the resumes so we could discuss them so I didn't miss anything.

I would encourage everyone to look beyond the minor spelling mistakes everyone makes, including us Dyslexics, and look at the content of a resume. You never know who you are passing up because spelling mistakes doesn't always indicate someone is not responsible or neglectful of the important details.

Alison Walker
Imaging Lead
Imagine Color Service
Seattle, WA
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "new_news"
Tue Feb 6, 2007 7:14 pm (PST)

I'm surprised at the amount of discussion regarding spelling and grammar on resumes. Currently our best digital tech is a very talented young man who speaks English as a second language. He don't write to great and he ain't a good speller neither. But we are delighted with his skill and insight in correcting images.

Today we hired a new office manager. She was one of a number of candidates we considered who submitted properly formated resumes that had no spelling or gramatical errors. You can be sure I checked closely.

Jonathan Clymer
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Les De Moss"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 8:55 am (PST)

You're right Jonathan, inevitably some people will break the mold. Alison, a dyslexic, made a post that suggests this. I have made certain hires more on hunch than I'd like to admit, trumping other concerns I may have had. I don't think anyone is suggesting that spelling and grammar are the sole determining factors in making a hire. They are clues that most of us involved in making hiring decisions pay attention to. When it comes down to a decision between two equally qualified candidates, seemingly insignificant errors on a resume may cost a person a job offer. It really is as simple as that.

If there is anything to be gained by the attention given to this subject, it is doing what we've always been told to do when preparing a resume... make it as perfect as possible, because it speaks for you. Hiring is not about overlooking faults or giving second chances. It is a business activity that is risky, expensive, and time consuming for the employer. Anyone suggesting that it should be ok to submit a resume containing errors, is living in a fantasy world. Employers are looking for strengths and weaknesses. It's common sense to maximize the first and minimize the latter.

If, like Alison, you are unable to spell and have trouble reading, then that ought to be communicated early in the process. It is better to explain an obvious weakness than to risk the employer making faulty, perhaps costly, assumptions.

When a candidate shows up for an interview, he/she will do well to keep the employer's perspective in mind, and present themselves in the best possible light. If they don't, they can rest assured that someone else will.

Les De Moss
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Pylant, Brian"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 11:08 am (PST)

...Currently our best digital tech is a very talented young man
who speaks English as a second language...

I believe that was already covered as an exception to this discussion.

When it comes down to a decision between two equally
qualified candidates, seemingly insignificant errors on a
resume may cost a person a job offer. It really is as simple
as that.

And there's another factor to consider: we receive hundreds of resumes per week (company-wide; we probably receive about 50+ per month specifically for prepress). I need to whittle that down to a manageable number just to get to the callback stage, and if a resume contains typos and other mistakes that candidate is probably not going to get a call. (And yes, one typo may be enough if I already have more error-free candidates than I need to look at -- this is a highly detail-oriented job, after all, and even the simplest mistake might cost us thousands of dollars to rework.)

Rule number one of job-hunting is to put your absolute BEST foot forward. In today's ultra-competetive job market nothing less will do.

BRIAN PYLANT
Manager, Electronic Prepress

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Disc Makers
7905 North Route 130, Pennsauken, NJ 08110
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Lee Clawson"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 11:12 am (PST)

Les,

What I hear from many of the folks posting on this needless thread is an unwillingness to give anyone even remotely close to Allison the time of day.

To mis-quote Alan Iverson, "We're talking about s p e l l i n g !!!"...

Lee Clawson
2/\V/\7 Studio
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "Les De Moss"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 1:23 pm (PST)

Lee, given the entirely of what's been said, I think that's a little strong. I offered up a suggestion for someone like Alison (she spells her name with one "L"...) that might overcome a unique disadvantage such as hers. In my 30 years of hiring and interviewing, I'm confident that most of the sloppy applications and resumes I receive are sloppy out of carelessness, not because of extraordinary medical reasons.

I may very well have overlooked a quality applicant like Alison, because I couldn't afford the time to call and ask "are there any extenuating circumstances that I should know about that resulted your submitting a poorly executed application?" Perhaps some people have the time available to root out these things. If I'm holding five other flawless apps in my hand, I don't have time to verify that the bad ones are in fact, truly bad. That's why I suggest that someone in Alison's address this right up front, so they aren't disqualified without consideration.

I think that I and others have presented the general reality of the hiring process. This is not a fanciful idea about how it should be, but rather, how it is. Those who heed the information shared here will likely benefit from knowing an employers process and point of view - whether they agree with it or not. I believe that those who handle it differently do so at their own risk.

If anything is to be learned from this thread, it is that different employers place various levels of importance on the quality of a resume or application. If I were to submit a resume for a position I wanted, I know which side I'd prefer to error on.

I agree that this thread has moved completely off-topic. I expected a moderator's warning following my last post. To preempt... I'll make this my last post to this "needless" thread.

Les De Moss
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Re: How to evaluate Photoshop technicians
Posted by: "dbernaerdt"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 1:31 pm (PST)

Les,

I have to agree with your last statement. This has thread has moved completely off-topic for this list. Unless there are any further responses to Jonathan Clymer's original post (as it relates to the objectives of this list), can we please consider this topic closed?

Thank you in advance,
Darren Bernaerdt
ColorTheory co-moderator
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Re: [SPAM?]  Re: [colortheory] Re: How to evaluate Photoshop
Posted by: "Pylant, Brian"
Wed Feb 7, 2007 1:23 pm (PST)

Les,
What I hear from many of the folks posting on this needless
thread

Well, it didn't start out talking about this, but it naturally evolved in this direction. Happens sometimes. Plenty of other folks around here sent numerous posts hammering other useless points into the ground over and over and over and over and over again, don't they?

unwillingness to give anyone even remotely close to Allison
the time of day.

Someone like Allison should make her situation known up-front, right? If that was done then there would be no problem at all, just like someone who makes it clear that English isn't their first language. A failure to provide necessary information isn't *my* problem.

To mis-quote Alan Iverson, "We're talking about s p e l l i n g !!!"...

Yes, we're talking about spelling. It's important. Very important. And far too many people just don't seem to care about it anymore.

And nothing that pathetic man has ever said is worth paying attention to.

BRIAN PYLANT
Manager, Electronic Prepress

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